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-   -   New drum mix (Pull The Plug) (http://forums.smnnews.com/showthread.php?t=179826)

F0RBIDDEN 03-07-2008 09:41 AM

New drum mix (Pull The Plug)
 
So last night me and a couple of friends were fuckin' around with my new Onyx 1200F and some new mics I picked up and recorded this... Haven't done that much with it, compressed the snare a bit, EQ'd the kick and blended it a little with a sample. Aside from panning, the toms and overheads are untouched. There's a horrible rough guitar guide track my friend played and some vocals that we layed down just for fun as a joke more or less to make the track a bit more interesting to listen to than just drums, but I'm aware that the vocals and guitar track sound like horrid ass haha, I'm just looking for opinions on the drum sound!

Mic setup was as follow...

Studio Projects C4s on overheads
Shure SM57 on snare top
Audix i5 on snare bottom
Audix D2s on rack toms
Audix D4 on floor tom
Audix D6 on kick

http://www.ashesofthefallen.net/Pull The Plug.mp3

Holo 03-07-2008 09:53 AM

Sounds a bit to synthetic for me.

Logan 03-07-2008 03:09 PM

on the right track, but it does sound a little i dunno...fake? too much compression i think. i dunno.

F0RBIDDEN 03-07-2008 03:13 PM

Cool thanks for the input, I'll do some more playing around! Funny, no one ever mentioned anything about the last mix I posted sounding fake and that one was way more processed and sound replaced than this haha, everything here is natural except the kick! I think I'll take the compression down a notch on the snare and play with the kick sound a bit more... Thanks again!

modern death 03-07-2008 03:19 PM

Hi hat sounds fake for some reason. Toms sound good for being untouched, kick drum could sound a little fatter, ride sounds good, wish there wasn't vocals on it, though, so I could focus on the drums. Not a fan of the snare sound. Sounds really weird. Personally if I would've taken the time to record vocals/guitar over it I would've made them sound decent at least. On some of the guys hits the snare sounds like it clips.

F0RBIDDEN 03-07-2008 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ten_second_infinity (Post 2695895)
Hi hat sounds fake for some reason. Toms sound good for being untouched, kick drum could sound a little fatter, ride sounds good, wish there wasn't vocals on it, though, so I could focus on the drums. Not a fan of the snare sound. Sounds really weird. Personally if I would've taken the time to record vocals/guitar over it I would've made them sound decent at least. On some of the guys hits the snare sounds like it clips.

We didn't take any time to record the guitar, it was just what the guitarist was playing in the drummer's headphones so he could follow the song, we just happened to record it while it was happening.

modern death 03-07-2008 05:18 PM

Are the drummers snare hits just not consistent? I guess that would be it. Some of the snare hits are super loud, almost sounding like they're passing the threshold, and some are softer. Which side of the snare (the one on top of the snare) was the mic on? and how would it sound if you only used one mic for the snare?

F0RBIDDEN 03-07-2008 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ten_second_infinity (Post 2696054)
Are the drummers snare hits just not consistent? I guess that would be it. Some of the snare hits are super loud, almost sounding like they're passing the threshold, and some are softer. Which side of the snare (the one on top of the snare) was the mic on? and how would it sound if you only used one mic for the snare?

The snare mic was on the left side of the drum, with the back of it facing the high hat to kill as much bleed as possible. The bottom snare mic actually adds a lot of "bite" to the sound, it sounds weak without it... There are definitely some inconsistent snare hits, I need to play with the compression a bit more and bring the snare level down in general as it's a bit too loud, but the actual recorded tracks never clipped at least, so bring the snare down should tame that a bit... I'm going to try playing around with some different compression plugins and see which sounds the most natural, I'll try and get another clip up once I've done some messing around!

ChAAPY 03-07-2008 05:34 PM

well, it doesn't sound like there are a bunch of phase issues, so good job on that! that's a task all on it's own. the compression on the snare sounds like it could use some tweaking. during the verse, it sounds like it's clipping just a tad. next time, don't have the singer in the mix for a drum critique, haha. what compressor did you use? software or hardware?

modern death 03-07-2008 05:37 PM

yeah i swear it sounded like it was clipping. are you using Reaper, Adam?

F0RBIDDEN 03-07-2008 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ten_second_infinity (Post 2696069)
yeah i swear it sounded like it was clipping. are you using Reaper, Adam?

Yeah I'm using Reaper. It's the compressor that's making it sound like that, I'm messing around with stuff a bit more.... It's not technically clipping the level meters, but I agree it sounds fucked up at times.

In case you're implying that Reaper is causing the snare to sound like that, it's not, it's my n00bness and inexperience haha...

F0RBIDDEN 03-07-2008 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChAAPY (Post 2696065)
well, it doesn't sound like there are a bunch of phase issues, so good job on that! that's a task all on it's own. the compression on the snare sounds like it could use some tweaking. during the verse, it sounds like it's clipping just a tad. next time, don't have the singer in the mix for a drum critique, haha. what compressor did you use? software or hardware?

Software, did some experimenting with ReaComp which is the Reaper Compressor, as well as Waves C1, digitalfishphones Endorphin and a compressor plugin that came on a CD with my Saffire Pro. Just gotta experiment some more with it...

indented_head 03-07-2008 09:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ten_second_infinity (Post 2695895)
kick drum could sound a little fatter,

The Kick sounds huge here, but I hear the snare clip as well. Toms are pretty loud as well.

Ouroboros 03-07-2008 10:35 PM

Yeah the snare is definitely making the compressor "breathe". The attack is either too long, or the release is too short. There's some crispness that sounds decent that ends up poking through at the softer hits, so there is also too much being compressed. Try lowering the threshold some, just so the compressor slightly kicks in on the loudest transients.

Too much boom on the toms as well, in my opinion.

Other than that, I prefer this sound to your last! Oh, and that horrible click/scratch at the end was surprising and kinda hurt my ears at a reasonable listening level. Haha

F0RBIDDEN 03-08-2008 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ouroboros (Post 2696477)
Yeah the snare is definitely making the compressor "breathe". The attack is either too long, or the release is too short. There's some crispness that sounds decent that ends up poking through at the softer hits, so there is also too much being compressed. Try lowering the threshold some, just so the compressor slightly kicks in on the loudest transients.

Too much boom on the toms as well, in my opinion.

Other than that, I prefer this sound to your last! Oh, and that horrible click/scratch at the end was surprising and kinda hurt my ears at a reasonable listening level. Haha

Haha thanks for the insight dude! I'll try doing some EQing and maybe multiband compression on the toms to tame the boominess and I'll adjust the compressor on the snare like you suggested and see how it sounds!

And yeah, I don't know what the fuck that noise at the end was either, haha... Didn't notice it during tracking... I'm thinking maybe my buddy turned his amp off while we were still recording and the direct out was still plugged into my interface...

ruonitb 03-08-2008 10:58 AM

Sounds really good for an amateur drum recording, seriously...drum recording is the most difficult thing imo.

Don´t get why people think it sounds synthetic...most modern death metal drum recordings sound like drum computers anyway.
So you resampled the bassdrum?

Give the snare more punch...it´s in the 3,5 - 5 khz area; would recommend about 3 db.
More attack is between 1-2 khz.

Push the bassdrum between 60-80 hz and give it more kick...that´s between 45 khz.

Even though it´s not really usefull to do all this without bass/guitar, since in the end everything has to fit together.

Ouroboros 03-10-2008 11:16 AM

I just had a big session this weekend, tracked 3 songs, guitar beds, guitar overdubs, drums and bass. I will post rough mixes.

If you have a good room, a good drummer, nice sounding and well tuned drums, even crappy mics with reasonable placement will result in a great drum sound.

I think that's the best aspect of what I recorded, is the drums. It has everything to do with the room, the drums and the drummer, though. I also used really nice mics and preamps.

modern death 03-10-2008 11:26 AM

What were the dimensions of the room, not exact but like.. very small or was it rather big? carpet on the floors and sound pads on the walls? I assume so if it was in a studio/school's studio. I would love to hear some rough mixes.

Ouroboros 03-10-2008 11:31 AM

It was a professionally treated, somewhat small, live/dead room. It has wooden floors, we used a carpet so the drum rack didn't slide, but it didn't cover much area at all. It had slotted absorbtion panels on the left, right, and ceiling. Diffusers at the "dead" end, and slight diffusion at the "live" end. Cost the school around 10g's initially, but, if you know how to calculate standing waves, and have a rectangular room, you could do a similar treatment for much less.

I don't think I would trust myself to do a proper job, at this point, though.

Rough mix is bouncing as I type. But, it's not the full song. I can't believe this band, they recorded a 21 minute song in three takes. Influenced heavily by Opeth, Tool, Isis, etc.

Ouroboros 03-10-2008 11:34 AM

Oh, here's a picture from the school's website. It's not from the session I just did, it's from a number of years ago.

http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/694/pic10gm4.jpg

ChAAPY 03-10-2008 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ouroboros (Post 2699396)
If you have a good room, a good drummer, nice sounding and well tuned drums, even crappy mics with reasonable placement will result in a great drum sound.

exactly.

Ouroboros 03-10-2008 08:21 PM

http://www.sendspace.com/file/94ob3m

Link to a short clip of a rough mix from this past weekend. I posted another thread, but here it is anyway.

modern death 03-10-2008 08:56 PM

The drums sound far away, not sure how else I can explain it. Like sometimes when the snare is played it seems like it's farther away than the rest of the kit. Was this a live recording? or did the drummer do his stuff first? I think I remember you saying they did it in 3 takes all together? but maybe I am mistaken. Drums sound very "live" as if they're in the room with me when I am playing this. hats and ride sound good. kick drum is not triggered, right? sounds good. I'm guessing their bass drum had a hole to put the mic into? or how did that work? sounds great man for a rough mix. think my least favorite thing would be the toms but they don't even sound bad. this isn't your first recording session is it?

Ouroboros 03-10-2008 10:17 PM

It was a live take, and yeah, I've gotten the comment about a lot of room in the drum mix. The snare though? Hmm, I don't get that on any monitors I've listened to it on...I will try mixing in headphones and on some small computer speakers to see if I can hear that and balance the kit out. The kick drum is not triggered, no, nothing is.

The live sound of the drums is actually what I was going for. It definitely sounds more natural, but perhaps I will mix it as such so they come forward, and everything is punchy and in the forefront of the mix, with the guitars staying balanced and clear. That's my goal, anyway.

It's my first recording session with a full band, but not my first recording of drums, or guitar. Anyway, thanks a lot man, I appreciate any comments and constructive criticism.

Ouroboros 03-10-2008 10:25 PM

Oh and yeah, kick drum had a hole, put an AKG D112 2 inches or a little more away from the beater, off axis.

And yeah, that snare issue...I can hear that when he doesn't get a consistent crack from the snare, when its more of a light pop, it is distant sounding. Is that kinda what you were hearing?

modern death 03-11-2008 01:14 AM

Yeah, exactly. But, the more I listen to it the better the recording sounds, haha. The drums do sound very natural and I like that a lot about them. Too bad I live so far away it would be cool to let you record a couple of our songs. Great job, man. Please keep me/us up to date on this mix and your future ones as well. You plan to do any death metal bands?

TheAlphaBreed 03-11-2008 07:12 AM

Snare sounded wet. Awesome.

I think it was pretty cool, something was definately clipping though.

Bassdrums sound huge :D

Ouroboros 03-11-2008 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ten_second_infinity (Post 2700139)
Yeah, exactly. But, the more I listen to it the better the recording sounds, haha. The drums do sound very natural and I like that a lot about them. Too bad I live so far away it would be cool to let you record a couple of our songs. Great job, man. Please keep me/us up to date on this mix and your future ones as well. You plan to do any death metal bands?

Thanks a lot man, and yeah I will post assorted clips when they are mixed. My teacher actually said the tracking was about as good as can get, and everything is just ready to be mixed, so it's a great start. I think some compression on the snare and the overheads will beef them up a bit, give some consistency to that snare, and if it's slight, but fulfills its purpose, they will still sound natural, just a little less roomy.

Anyway, yeah, my plan this entire year was to get some death metal or black metal bands to come in and record. I asked Wakeness' band, they were going to come in but ended up changing their minds. I went to some shows and approached bands, but a lot of them already had material recorded or weren't at all prepared to record in the near future. But yeah, I'm compiling my own gear, and after I graduate I have an insanely cheap rate for renting the school studios, so I think that's how I'm going to work until I can afford to build my own live room. Now, at least I have some material to work on for a portfolio, and I am going to try my hand at some amateur mastering in the school facilities, if that works out, maybe you wouldn't mind sending me some wav's of Abhorrent, and I will try my best to master them, without charge.

Ouroboros 03-11-2008 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheAlphaBreed (Post 2700286)
Snare sounded wet. Awesome.

I think it was pretty cool, something was definately clipping though.

Bassdrums sound huge :D

This is regarding F0RBIDDEN's mix, correct?

F0RBIDDEN 03-11-2008 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ouroboros (Post 2700398)
This is regarding F0RBIDDEN's mix, correct?

Definitely, yours doesn't sound like noisy clipping garbage haha...

I'm having some latency/buffer issues with my setup right now that I'm hoping can be attributed to recording and mixing from the system drive but if not I'm gonna be bummed. Even with my latency at like 2048 I'm getting a ton of clicks, pops and random noises when dealing with a new session I recorded on Sunday... Grrr!

Question for you though dude, you say you used a D112 for the kick placed 2 inches away from the batter head? I found every time I placed the mic close to the batter head I got like zero attack and all "boom"... I tried placing the mic in the hole on the resonant skin with the mic poking into the drum maybe 2 inches and got TONS of attack and a totally useable bass drum sound on the weekend, and a couple things I read also confirmed that you'll get more attack with a more distant placement when it comes to kick drum micing... Your kick drum in that recording sounds great so I'm just wondering why I get the total opposite results?

I agree with Marlon about the snare sounding "distant", that's a problem I'm having during tracking too, even with just a close mic on the snare. It doesn't sound "in your face" at all and sounds like the mic was placed like 3 feet away...

Here's the shit I tracked on Sunday, I'm not really posting this for critique or anything, I know it sounds bad, the playing is bad because the drummer didn't know the song very well at all and we were just experimenting with my gear, it's just to give Ouroboros an example of what sort of sounds I'm getting... There's also a bunch of popping and clicking from the rendering which is dumb as fuck.

http://www.ashesofthefallen.net/cold.mp3

No samples at all, 100% natural drum sound... Snare sounds "distant" to me like I was talking about before :\ Kick drum is getting better though, but still not happy with it really. I totally agree that having a great sounding drum kit with well tuned nice skins is almost the entire battle. I found the tracking was sounding a million times better this time around just because of the time we spent with the Drum Dial tuning the drums and reskinning everything. It seems like microphones are much less forgiving than the human ear and will make bad skins sound worse than you hear them in real life, and represent good skins and well tuned drums a lot more accurately...


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