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Old 08-17-2008, 08:09 PM   #61
Naitz
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Though Willith may be arrogant or what, hes mostly right.
It does matter how you come to your music. It may be of no interest to the normal listener but it is of interest for a critical person and creator of music. Knowing general workings of music (theory) is essential if you want to write something that goes beyond death metal or the beatles, and even when writing such music you'll have much less struggle with bringing to paper what you want to.
Paul Mc Cartney once said that he dislikes theory and did't learn it because it would limit yourself, because you'd only do whats inside "the boundaries".
Stupid point imo, as knowing rules is a requirement of actively breaking them.
Ironically too, as the Beatles music was far from innovative harmonic wise.

And I really think making music and not knowing about theory and past music is somewhat ignorant (Imagine someone calling himself a poet and not knowing about poetric measures and the like or dont knowing shakespear, nobody would take him serious. But when it comes to music most believe it just takes a guitar and 3 random chords to make you a musician...) and counterproductive (every piece of understanding raises your own abilities, the Music of Bach e.g. would never be possible w.o. acribic scientific research, and the total devotion to the music itself, wich includes the persuit of perfection and excludes every moment of accident).
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Old 08-17-2008, 08:25 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by NaitsabesWinklersson View Post
It does matter how you come to your music. It may be of no interest to the normal listener but it is of interest for a critical person and creator of music. Knowing general workings of music (theory) is essential if you want to write something that goes beyond death metal or the beatles, and even when writing such music you'll have much less struggle with bringing to paper what you want to.
In your opinion. This definitely isn't a fact, and I don't agree with it.
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Old 08-17-2008, 08:39 PM   #63
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I wish I had gotten into this discussion before it got to be so long. As far as I know, if you try to go into college with a major in music and you can't read music, they're going to laugh at you and tell you to get the fuck out.
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Old 08-17-2008, 08:43 PM   #64
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I wish I had gotten into this discussion before it got to be so long. As far as I know, if you try to go into college with a major in music and you can't read music, they're going to laugh at you and tell you to get the fuck out.
I don't doubt it...
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Old 08-17-2008, 09:37 PM   #65
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I wonder how many people there are that read music and actually put out releases within genres that people listen to, versus people that don't read music that put out releases within say the top 20 genres.

I see a lot of people on here talk so intelligently about music theory all the time and how songs should be structured, how they can read sheet music, giving ridiculous theories on how and why bands write and structure their songs this way or that, etc, yet I can't find any music from these people. Makes me question this.
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Old 08-17-2008, 09:55 PM   #66
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I see a lot of people on here talk so intelligently about music theory all the time and how songs should be structured, how they can read sheet music, giving ridiculous theories on how and why bands write and structure their songs this way or that, etc, yet I can't find any music from these people. Makes me question this.
I knew a lot of kids in my theory class a few years ago that did very well in the class, but weren't very accomplished on their instrument. Some musicians that may not be great at performing music, can still be great composers.
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Old 08-18-2008, 12:52 AM   #67
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I knew a lot of kids in my theory class a few years ago that did very well in the class, but weren't very accomplished on their instrument. Some musicians that may not be great at performing music, can still be great composers.
This. A lot of people who can't play compose and/or arrange. I definitely play better than I compose, but I hope that'll change once in college. Well, I still want to play better than I compose, but I want to be a better composer.
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Old 08-18-2008, 01:20 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by Willith View Post
babber
said the guy with the burzum sig

subjugate; yeah i didnt figure it would be so hard to comprehend. to sum it up, i think theory in general can be useful as a tool to expand and utilize your musicality, but is generally not a measure for how musical a person is.
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Old 08-18-2008, 01:55 AM   #69
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I should also point out that there are entire musical cultures throughout the world that are centuries old and make little or no use of notation. It's a tool, not a prerequisite. Oral traditions have always been around.
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Old 08-18-2008, 03:18 AM   #70
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I should also point out that there are entire musical cultures throughout the world that are centuries old and make little or no use of notation. It's a tool, not a prerequisite. Oral traditions have always been around.


/thread
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Old 08-18-2008, 07:48 PM   #71
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That's a very uncritical attitude. The fact that Schönberg was an incredible innovator and wrote some extremely intense music doesn't make anyone "know" that his music is brilliant, nor does it make all his pieces equally convincing; I certainly consider his output very mixed in quality. You clearly just think you're superior for knowing some of his music, but you probably have little understanding of it if that's the way you talk.
lol, my teacher studied with one of Schonberg's students (Paul Pisk) who studied with him around the same time as Berg and Webern. Needless to say, I know far more about him as a person than you ever will.

I havn't gotten my final back from the class yet (as it just ended last week)- I had to ANALYZE (you know, the thing you claim I have little understanding of?) part of the book of the hanging garden-
But if you like, I can show you some of the assignments I got back and still have laying around regarding interval vectors?


You talk like you're really something else...but the fact of the matter is you're over the hill- and have DICK to show for it. You're not even a has-been- you're a never-was. Maybe it's time to leave the message boards to the kids and get your shit together.

Last edited by Willith; 08-18-2008 at 07:51 PM..
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Old 08-18-2008, 07:57 PM   #72
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but the fact of the matter is you're over the hill- and have DICK to show for it.


http://www.myspace.com/wielandhoban

so where's your music?
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Old 08-18-2008, 09:28 PM   #73
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lol, my teacher studied with one of Schonberg's students (Paul Pisk) who studied with him around the same time as Berg and Webern. Needless to say, I know far more about him as a person than you ever will.

I havn't gotten my final back from the class yet (as it just ended last week)- I had to ANALYZE (you know, the thing you claim I have little understanding of?) part of the book of the hanging garden-
But if you like, I can show you some of the assignments I got back and still have laying around regarding interval vectors?
You're just further proving his point.
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Old 08-18-2008, 09:54 PM   #74
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http://www.myspace.com/wielandhoban

so where's your music?
BAHAHAHA, you think a myspace page with 12 friends constitutes SUCCESS?? Oh God I wish I lived in your world....

I'm pretty sure just about everybody here has a myspace page for their band (even if they are entirely self-produced) I can't tell if that was sarcasm or just a horribly failed attempt at trying to put me in my place?





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You're just further proving his point.
Seriously, you must be one of the dumbest individuals on this board.
He was assuming I didn't know anything about schonberg's music other than I had maybe listened to some of it (fair assumption; but wrong) and I just showed him otherwise.
But for some reason you say I proved his point- ...so being in a schonberg class and analyzing his music means.....I don't know how to analyze schonberg's music?
You see? You seriously are one of the DUMBEST individuals on this board.

By the way, he's a big-boy- I'm sure he can handle his own internet arguments without all your precious help. Feel free to add more nothing to the conversation though- I'm sure he loves having his own cheering section.
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Old 08-18-2008, 10:02 PM   #75
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BAHAHAHA, you think a myspace page with 12 friends constitutes SUCCESS?? Oh God I wish I lived in your world....

I'm pretty sure just about everybody here has a myspace page for their band (even if they are entirely self-produced) I can't tell if that was sarcasm or just a horribly failed attempt at trying to put me in my place?
I'm not talking about success you fucking idiot. You said he had nothing to show for himself yet you're the one who has nothing. You've been nothing but a little bitch this whole time acting like you know everything there is to know about music and theory and yet, for the amount of bullshit that you spew, you don't have any music to show for it.

Go make more threads about how the "key" members of Cryptospy should sue Flo since you seem to think you know everything there is about trademark laws as well.

faggot.

Last edited by ChAAPY; 08-18-2008 at 10:34 PM..
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Old 08-18-2008, 10:41 PM   #76
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Music elitism is the worst kind of elitism.

Just because you don't know theory does not make you an invalid musician. You have equal opportunity in musicial endeavors knowing and not knowing music theory, but music theory gives more room to "work" with those ideas. I love how Willith is saying that people are retarded, seemingly because they aren't pro-theory.
It's also funny how he accuses quartertone for "thinking he's something else." when he's doing just that, not quartertone.
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Old 08-18-2008, 10:44 PM   #77
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I'm not talking about success you fucking idiot. You said he had nothing to show for himself yet you're the one who has nothing. You've been nothing but a little bitch this whole time acting like you know everything there is to know about music and theory and yet, for the amount of bullshit that you spew, you don't have any music to show for it.

Go make more threads about how the "key" members of Cryptospy should sue Flo since you seem to think you know everything there is about trademark laws as well.

faggot.


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I'm pretty sure just about everybody here has a myspace page for their band (even if they are entirely self-produced)


Did you think I wasn't including myself when I said "just about EVERYBODY"?


You've got really low standards if you think A myspace page is really "something to show" for an entire career as a musican...


JUST SAYIN'....
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Old 08-18-2008, 11:27 PM   #78
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so where's your music?
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Old 08-19-2008, 02:50 AM   #79
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Originally Posted by Willith View Post
lol, my teacher studied with one of Schonberg's students
So what? That's no achievement of yours, and in any case - we're talking about his music here.

Quote:
I haven't gotten my final back from the class yet (as it just ended last week)- I had to ANALYZE (you know, the thing you claim I have little understanding of?) part of the book of the hanging garden-
But if you like, I can show you some of the assignments I got back and still have laying around regarding interval vectors?
Oh really? Perhaps I should show you some of my published analyses, or the composition prizes I've won, or the essays and books I've translated? Or you can just buy the latter at Amazon, of course.

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You talk like you're really something else
That's pretty rich from you. You might notice that I haven't talked down to anyone here except you, because nobody else is as laughably misguided.

Quote:
...but the fact of the matter is you're over the hill
What, at 30? Sounds like you have some disillusionment ahead of you, kiddo.

Quote:
- and have DICK to show for it. You're not even a has-been- you're a never-was.
Considering you appear to know nothing about the contemporary music scene (so far you've referred only to music written almost 100 years ago), let alone in Europe, you're really not qualified to judge that.

Quote:
Maybe it's time to leave the message boards to the kids and get your shit together.
Drop me a line when you've made it big, asshole.
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Old 08-19-2008, 02:52 AM   #80
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You've got really low standards if you think A myspace page is really "something to show" for an entire career as a musican...
Thankfully, I do exist outside of the Internet...
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Old 08-19-2008, 05:23 AM   #81
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You`re not a spam bot?
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Old 08-19-2008, 07:41 AM   #82
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You`re not a spam bot?
Damn, you've blown my cover!
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Old 08-19-2008, 04:55 PM   #83
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Oh really? Perhaps I should show you some of my published analyses, or the composition prizes I've won, or the essays and books I've translated? Or you can just buy the latter at Amazon, of course.
Yes, perhaps you should? Perhaps you shouldn't continue to let half-wits represent you (poorly) as well.


Quote:
What, at 30? Sounds like you have some disillusionment ahead of you, kiddo.
You don't look 30 in that picture- not even 40.



Quote:
Considering you appear to know nothing about the contemporary music scene (so far you've referred only to music written almost 100 years ago), let alone in Europe, you're really not qualified to judge that.
Contemporary music scene as it applies to _____________?
Metal? Country? Jazz? hip-hop? Post-Post-tonal?
Oh, you mean the kind of music on your myspace? The stuff that's been done to death twice already? You'll have to forgive me for not having an active interest in a genre of music with no innovation and little creativity at this point. I'm pretty sure Ives and Cage took care of that many years ago.
Sure metal isn't much different in that aspect, but I think it still has more to offer.


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Drop me a line when you've made it big, asshole.
I will. I think I'll focus more on GRADUATING first.
Why don't you drop me a line when you've made it big, asshole.
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Old 08-20-2008, 01:58 PM   #84
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Quartertone, you seem like a reasonable guy, but damn, the music on your myspace is just terrible. Less minimalism please.
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Old 08-20-2008, 02:09 PM   #85
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Quartertone, you seem like a reasonable guy, but damn, the music on your myspace is just terrible. Less minimalism please.


Minimalism is really the LAST thing you could call my music.
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Old 08-20-2008, 02:31 PM   #86
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lol I must be getting my old genres mixed up, I haven't taken music history for over a year and I only took 1 semester of it. I remember studying stuff like that though, it was just terrible.
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Old 08-20-2008, 02:45 PM   #87
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Minimalism uses a very limited amount of material (hence "minimalism"), for example chords or melodic cells, and repeats it for a long time, sometimes with gradual alterations. Its most famous exponents and originators are Steve Reich, Philip Glass and Terry Riley (all American).
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Old 08-20-2008, 02:59 PM   #88
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Yeah I read up on it after I realized it was the wrong genre. What would you classify that as? I remember learning about music like that, but I can't put a genre on it right now.
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Old 08-20-2008, 03:02 PM   #89
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For more info, there's some stuff about my work and related links here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wieland_Hoban
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Old 08-20-2008, 03:21 PM   #90
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Expressionism, that's what I was thinking of. But still, your stuff may be good expressionism, but it's still pretty terrible sounding. Just an honest opinion.
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