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Old 02-25-2007, 08:59 PM   #1
tenorbass
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Tabs/ Tunings/Recording

Hey I just wanted to know if you guys had any tabs just any sections of any songs would be cool! What are the guitar's tuned to? Also, What program do you guys use to record music. Also, how do you record? Mic the guitar amp? Go into the pc with a preamp?

Thanks alot!
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Old 02-26-2007, 07:57 PM   #2
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No tabs at the moment. We tune to A flat.

Here is the recording chain for the guitars on Cognitive Dissonance:
Ibanez RG7321 --> Mesa/Boogie Triple Rectifier send --> DBX 166 Compressor --> BBE Sonic Maximizer --> Return input of Triple Rec --> Mesa/Boogie 4X12 Cab --> SM57 Microphone --> Soundcraft Spirit Digital 328 console --> PC sound card via fiber optic inputs --> Cool Edit Pro 2.0 (now it is Adobe Audition).

Also, I used Drumkit From Hell 2 samples and Fruity Loops 5.0 for sequencing and Cool Edit Pro 2.0 for editing the drum loops. I mixed and mastered using both Waves plug ins and Isotope Ozone 3. All monitored with Sennheiser HD 595 head phones.

However, for the full length I want to upgrade EVERYTHING. Well, except for the Mesa/Boogie. But I want to get the Vintech 1272 preamp, Neumman and AKG condensor mics and a pair of ADAM monitors. Hiyooh!

Last edited by Metastasis; 03-16-2007 at 08:05 PM..
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Old 03-14-2007, 07:06 PM   #3
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Hi!

Did you double the guitar tracks? :)
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Old 03-14-2007, 07:45 PM   #4
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Yes, there are two guitar tracks, one with harmonies. We were originally going to record four tracks of guitar, but it was kind of muddy and hard to mix.
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Old 03-15-2007, 07:59 AM   #5
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Ah, ok. So you recorded the rhythm guitars twice and the solo/melody guitars once?! :)

Iīm really interesed in your methods since this is one of the best self-produced/recorded releases I have heard. I really dig the sound.

How did you pan the tracks? (if you still remember ;) )
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Old 03-15-2007, 09:29 PM   #6
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Thanks. We put a lot of time and effort in all the steps of recording: the preproduction, the session and mixdown.

The leads and solos vary. Some of them are single tracked, while others were double tracked with double harmonies (Revelations, especially) and panned in a wide spread with multiple plug in and/or rackmounted effects!

I could probably go on forever. Feel free to let me know if you have any more questions, and I'm glad to hear that someone out there appreciates the sound.
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Old 03-15-2007, 10:26 PM   #7
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are you guys ever going to release powertabs or something of the sort?
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Old 03-16-2007, 02:22 AM   #8
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The demand seems to be pretty high so we'll probably release something.
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Old 03-16-2007, 08:18 AM   #9
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I would like tabs as well...I guess that like everyone would like to play the revelations intro. ;)
And this song has a few other very nice riffs which I would like to play as well...so, please tab at least revelations out; the vid of max playing some parts of the song is really good. :)


Since my band just split up, Iīm doing solo stuff now (with drumcomputer) and thatīs why Iīm especially interested in your recording methods. I tried to record guitar tracks with the toneport ux2 interface by line 6 but Iīm not really happy with it, so I will probably buy a shure sm57 soon and try to mic the guitars.
Iīm glad that Iīm not going on your nerves when asking all that questions...your recording just inspired me, since it shows that you can come pretty far with homerecording - get a good sound.
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Old 03-16-2007, 08:02 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ruonitb View Post
I would like tabs as well...I guess that like everyone would like to play the revelations intro. ;)
And this song has a few other very nice riffs which I would like to play as well...so, please tab at least revelations out; the vid of max playing some parts of the song is really good. :)


Since my band just split up, Iīm doing solo stuff now (with drumcomputer) and thatīs why Iīm especially interested in your recording methods. I tried to record guitar tracks with the toneport ux2 interface by line 6 but Iīm not really happy with it, so I will probably buy a shure sm57 soon and try to mic the guitars.
Iīm glad that Iīm not going on your nerves when asking all that questions...your recording just inspired me, since it shows that you can come pretty far with homerecording - get a good sound.
Yeah, I'm assuming most people are interested in learning revelations, but there are also lots of solos and overall tricky riffs in all the other songs...not that that is the point behind our songwriting, but for those looking to push their dexterity, revelations isn't the only song that can give you some good exercises.

And your questions don't bother me at all. I'm glad I can help.

ETA: I was wrong about our tuning; it's A flat.

Last edited by Metastasis; 03-16-2007 at 08:05 PM..
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Old 03-16-2007, 08:46 PM   #11
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a flat on 7 string right?
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Old 03-17-2007, 02:33 AM   #12
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a flat on 7 string right?
You are correct, sir.
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Old 03-18-2007, 10:55 AM   #13
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errr..by the way: with what program did you make these industrial sounds?
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Old 03-18-2007, 05:26 PM   #14
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Quote:
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errr..by the way: with what program did you make these industrial sounds?

That's a secret.

Hehe, just kidding...lots and lots of samples and different software applications. I can't even remember most of the process. I would take a sample of like a train whistle, for instance, and run it through both Fruity Loops plug ins and Waves and just fuck with it until it was unrecognizable. You can do this with basically anything and mold it into your own sound.
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Old 03-19-2007, 08:03 AM   #15
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Hehe ok...thatīs what Iīm doing at the moment as well anyway... :)
So, thatīs fine. Itīs more fun anyway. :)

Ah, by the way...did you change much on the recorded guitar tracks? (I mean with EQ, effects etc.).

And what effects would you recommend on what drum samples? (for example reverb on snare etc.).

Thanks already!
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Old 03-19-2007, 08:32 PM   #16
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With guitar, I think it is most important to start with a tone that hardly needs any touching up. The tone must come from the guitar rig, not the recording gear (but high fidelity equipment is important for recording a clear representation of that tone).

The Mesa/Boogie Triple Rectifier is a loud, loud amp, but it can get pretty muddy. It's a balancing act between gain and clarity (that I'm still learning).

I ran the drum tracks through a lot of software, including Fuity Loops, Waves and Cool Edit pro plug ins. The DKFH samples can be real tricky. I got the majority of the tones done in the sample library's dedicated eq and envelope filters (I found that if you crank the highs on the kick, there will be audible hiss if you don't calibrate the decay correctly). I did put the faintest bit of reverb on the toms and I humanized the snare manually (literally adjusting the velocity one beat at a time, as I prorammed the beats).
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Old 03-21-2007, 08:31 AM   #17
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On my recordings, I always try to use as less gain as possible (especially when doubling the guitars) but I still have to feel comfortable with it while playing.

As for the industrial question, I want to use industrial sounds like they are in eraserhead (when looking at your avatar I guess you know what I mean ;) ).
I just found a free vst plugin which is pretty good for such sounds...they even mention eraserhead in itīs description. ;)

Itīs really hard work to let your programmed drums sound real...so much time to invest. :)
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Old 03-21-2007, 03:20 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ruonitb View Post
On my recordings, I always try to use as less gain as possible (especially when doubling the guitars) but I still have to feel comfortable with it while playing.

As for the industrial question, I want to use industrial sounds like they are in eraserhead (when looking at your avatar I guess you know what I mean ;) ).
I just found a free vst plugin which is pretty good for such sounds...they even mention eraserhead in itīs description. ;)

Itīs really hard work to let your programmed drums sound real...so much time to invest. :)
Yeah, lower gain is good for clarity and sharpness...but I do loves some heavy crunch. I think Meshuggah's guitar sound epitomizes a perfect balance (at least on DEI).

Hell yeah, the sound design in Eraserhead is amazing. All of Lynch's movies have exquisite sound design, especially Twin Peaks: Fire Walk With Me.

What vst plug in are you talking about? Sounds cool.
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Old 03-21-2007, 05:29 PM   #19
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Itīs this plugin: http://www.free-plugin-list.com/plugin.php?id=136

play around with it...I bet you will like it. :)


Guitar recording really is a science... ;)
Iīm always wondering how they get such a good sound like for example on the newer fear factory cdīs. I read an interview with the guy who recorded their last cd and he said that he recorded the guitar with 3 mics. I know thatīs pretty common but I canīt imagine to be able to do this...canīt even get enough out of one mic. ;)

I would die to have meshuggahs guitar sound tho.


The Lynch movies are brilliant anyway...he does everything right!
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Old 03-22-2007, 01:09 AM   #20
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That plugin looks sweet. Thanks for that.

Fear Factory definitely has some great productions, like Demanufacture, I haven't heard much new stuff.

David Lynch is God.
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Old 03-26-2007, 10:49 AM   #21
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I got a Ibanez RG7321 for my birthday. I am looking to do some recording but I am not sure to mic or go direct in. I play with a bass amp and a EH mini muff when I practice. I might do a line into my computer then EH muff to my guitar. My soundcard is pretty damm good but i am wondering what would give me a better tone. any opinions?
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Old 03-26-2007, 10:51 AM   #22
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Old 03-26-2007, 12:43 PM   #23
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I allready got a super nice distortion so it would be kinda pointless to lay down 180$ for something that I would only use 1 setting on
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Old 03-26-2007, 10:26 PM   #24
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I would experiment with both direct and mic recording. A/B it and see what you like more. I'm not too familiar with the EH Huff, so I'm not sure whether it's better for direct or micing a cab.

I, personally, have a harder time getting good tone when it is direct - and there is the fact that micing a cab captures the natural acoustics of the cab (the "point of excursion"- the volume at which the cabinet actually changes the quality of the distortion). However, micing an amp with bad tone won't make it any better. Garbage in is garbage out. That seems to be what I've learned the most when it comes to recording...you really can't polish a turd.

I think the main thing that is missing from direct recording is loudness.
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Old 04-03-2007, 02:21 PM   #25
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I personally don't dig DI for guitar at all.

I would get a Shure SM-57 with a XLR to 1/4" adapter to go into your soundcard, those mics go for under $100 CDN. You will need software with a good preamp though. Experiment with the angles and distance of the mic to the cab, as well. Makes a huge difference.

I have an EH Metal Muff and that pedal is awesome.
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Old 04-03-2007, 07:45 PM   #26
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I agree about DI recording...it usually sucks.

You don't need to use a XLR to quarter inch adapter - there are plenty of soundcards with balanced XLR inputs on the market. If yo are going to mic a cab, you should be able to play LOUD, though.
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Old 04-15-2007, 05:08 AM   #27
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So, its me once again... ;)

You said that you didnīt change too much on the guitar tracks with the EQ; but with what settings did you record the guitars then? I mean ,they shouldnīt have too much bass because then they will be in frequency of the bass and the bass drums. Did you turn the bass down on the amp? And the mids all the way up?
Or did you set a low-cut for the guitars?

And at what frequencies did you turn the bass up/down?

I always have a "mumbling" sound, no matter what I do...just seems that the guitars have too much bass even though I turned everything below 150 hz down.

And another problem is bass drum and bass...damn...
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Old 04-15-2007, 03:28 PM   #28
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So, its me once again... ;)

You said that you didnīt change too much on the guitar tracks with the EQ; but with what settings did you record the guitars then? I mean ,they shouldnīt have too much bass because then they will be in frequency of the bass and the bass drums. Did you turn the bass down on the amp? And the mids all the way up?
Or did you set a low-cut for the guitars?

And at what frequencies did you turn the bass up/down?

I always have a "mumbling" sound, no matter what I do...just seems that the guitars have too much bass even though I turned everything below 150 hz down.

And another problem is bass drum and bass...damn...

Bass was all the way down on the Rectifier. Loud tubes tend to be rumbly...so I did have to cut some bass frequency spikes in the guitar tracks (which tend to happen during palm muting).
I have a tendency to start with the mids and highs cranked, but I'll end up backing it down after searching for a tone for a while. The best way to record an overdriven tube guitar tone is to get it as dry and unaltered by onboard EQ or effects as possible. The "mumbling" might be too much bass or maybe too much gain at the output of one of the devices yo are using. This could be causing some clipping in the signal somewhere.

As far as relative bass frequencies, as well as all ranges, I like to make cuts and boosts at the same frequency on different instruments. For example: I'll cut the bass 100 Hz or so and boost that same frequency on the kick. That way they aren't fighting for the same frequency range. I do this for all instruments that share a range.
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Old 04-16-2007, 01:25 PM   #29
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thanks! :)

btw, do you know a free eq plugin with which i can easily do low cuts and hi cuts?
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Old 04-16-2007, 11:13 PM   #30
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yeh so im pretty much gonna mimic what I know everyone says all the time.. but tabs would be amazing! you should make a tab book like necrophagist did with epitaph... id buy it... and revelations is amazing but I hope you tab out metastasize eventually...
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