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Old 04-23-2010, 04:18 AM   #91
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Originally Posted by ConsumeAndBreed View Post
You're going to have to explain how America is more destructive than Islam, I can't even wrap my head around that one.
The brits and americans kinda nurtured the growth of fundamentalism in the middle east because it has been in their best interest to keep democracy from being established there.

They done did fucked up
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Old 04-23-2010, 04:21 AM   #92
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I think in order to solve everything we should kill everyone who isn't an atheist... in the name of atheism!!! AIEIEIEIEIEIEIEIEIEIEIEIE
Hah remember that time when Dawkins tried to arrest the pope? Wait... That was two week ago... FUCKING DAWKINS.
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Old 04-23-2010, 05:06 AM   #93
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apparently the website that threatened south park got their website hacked.

http://www.revolutionislam.com/


LOL
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Old 04-23-2010, 07:18 AM   #94
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ahahahha wtf
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Old 04-23-2010, 08:04 AM   #95
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apparently the website that threatened south park got their website hacked.

http://www.revolutionislam.com/


LOL
holy shit rofl

way to fight back!
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Old 04-23-2010, 08:54 AM   #96
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LOLOLOL
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Old 04-23-2010, 09:41 AM   #97
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lolao
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Old 04-23-2010, 10:44 AM   #98
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last episode of south park really sucked.

FUCKING MUSLIMS!!
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Old 04-23-2010, 10:47 AM   #99
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Yeah it was pretty average

Wish they'd make a Shawn Whitaker episode
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Old 04-23-2010, 03:24 PM   #100
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Originally Posted by GEEsu5 View Post
apparently the website that threatened south park got their website hacked.

http://www.revolutionislam.com/


LOL
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Old 04-23-2010, 03:36 PM   #101
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thats a rumor 4chan spread. its fake. the site that threatened them was this www.revolutionmuslim.com
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Old 04-23-2010, 04:02 PM   #102
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I wouldn't be surprised if they were killed. Because they offend people? I doubt it. Because they're talking too much for anyone's liking? Perhaps.
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Old 04-23-2010, 05:10 PM   #103
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No one has the right to not be offended.
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Old 04-24-2010, 02:49 PM   #104
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Chalky,

"There's this thing called being so open-minded your brains drop out."
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Old 04-24-2010, 02:52 PM   #105
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Yeah, if they fuck with Matt and Trey they will make me hate muslims as much as I hate Niggers. No one fucks with South Park.
Wow
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Old 04-24-2010, 09:07 PM   #106
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thats a rumor 4chan spread. its fake. the site that threatened them was this www.revolutionmuslim.com
4chan hacked revolutionmuslim to redirect to their revolutionislam site.
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Old 04-24-2010, 10:38 PM   #107
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thats more recent though
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Old 04-25-2010, 05:33 PM   #108
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The crazy thing is that Islamic culture was more advanced and progressive (in science, the arts and even government) than many European cultures in the Middle Ages. It's impossible to deny that the efforts of Western empires - Brits, French and most recently Yanks - to dominate, rearrange and manipulate cultures and societies has led to blowback of epic proportions. And anyone who thinks I'm just making excuses for Muslims should read a history book or two. The mess in Afghanistan caused by recent decades of interference is only the tip of the iceberg.
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Old 04-25-2010, 05:49 PM   #109
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Well yeah, Africa and the Middle East is entirely Europe's fault. On a separate note, fuck Muslims.
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Old 04-25-2010, 05:57 PM   #110
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The crazy thing is that Islamic culture was more advanced and progressive (in science, the arts and even government) than many European cultures in the Middle Ages. It's impossible to deny that the efforts of Western empires - Brits, French and most recently Yanks - to dominate, rearrange and manipulate cultures and societies has led to blowback of epic proportions. And anyone who thinks I'm just making excuses for Muslims should read a history book or two. The mess in Afghanistan caused by recent decades of interference is only the tip of the iceberg.
That's kinda strange how you put it, as you imply that the low standard of European societies in the middle ages was caused by some kind of "blowback", while in fact, central Europe was never advanced in any way up until Renaissance times.
And the whole imperialism thing got started after that. Still society progressed up until now.
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Old 04-25-2010, 06:16 PM   #111
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That's kinda strange how you put it, as you imply that the low standard of European societies in the middle ages was caused by some kind of "blowback", while in fact, central Europe was never advanced in any way up until Renaissance times.
No, that's not at all what I meant. I mean blowback in the form of widespread Muslim hostility, caused by totally retarding the development of Islamic societies.
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Old 04-25-2010, 06:31 PM   #112
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Ah ok. I guess as long as war is profitable enough, this won't change anything. Quite some blowback would be needed. I wonder though, if the insane amounts spent into the military will ever reimburse.
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Old 04-26-2010, 09:52 PM   #113
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Watched Southpark season 13 ep 1.

Shit SUXX HARD!!!

How is this lame ass, self-reciting shit anywhere comparable to the genius of the old epsiodes?
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Old 04-27-2010, 12:49 AM   #114
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Watched Southpark season 13 ep 1.

Shit SUXX HARD!!!

How is this lame ass, self-reciting shit anywhere comparable to the genius of the old epsiodes?
I thought that when I saw the Chinese restaurant episode, but don't let it discourage you. The series is still awesome and most of the new episodes are great. Try others. You'll probably still like at least half of them.
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Old 04-27-2010, 02:41 AM   #115
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Link
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Old 04-27-2010, 03:06 AM   #116
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Originally Posted by ConsumeAndBreed View Post
wtf are you even talking about? When's the last time Christian extremists gathered to stone a woman for not wearing a burka when it was 130 degrees? When's the last time American christians or jews flew a plane into a building to kill 3k people to make a point? When was the last christian or jewish suicide bombing?
Oh man, you've really got your binoculars the wrong way around here. Those acts are disgusting in their disregard for human life, free will and invididual dignity, yes. Do they compare to the death and destruction inflicted by empires, most recently the American one, on those countries? Certainly not. Are 3,000 WTC employees in Manhattan worth more than the hundreds of thousands of foreign victims of America's greed for power and resources? Compare the victims of suicide attacks to US or Israeli air strikes and tell me how the numbers compare. Not to mention the fact that almost all suicide bombings are a response to political and/or military oppression, and hence no more or less legitimate than an attack by a recognised army (in fact more legitimate than many of those, considering the motive is defence/freedom rather than domination and theft).

I realise that Americans are handicapped through their media and a natural tendency to overlook the rest of the world, but in the age of the Internet it's really not so hard to inform oneself a little more.
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Old 04-27-2010, 10:59 AM   #117
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^Not to mention that any political effort to somewhat secularize Islam in the middle-east has never been supported.
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Old 04-27-2010, 04:19 PM   #118
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Indeed, quite the opposite. Progress towards modernisation has consistently been thwarted.
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Old 04-28-2010, 12:55 AM   #119
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Oh man, you've really got your binoculars the wrong way around here. Those acts are disgusting in their disregard for human life, free will and invididual dignity, yes. Do they compare to the death and destruction inflicted by empires, most recently the American one, on those countries? Certainly not. Are 3,000 WTC employees in Manhattan worth more than the hundreds of thousands of foreign victims of America's greed for power and resources? Compare the victims of suicide attacks to US or Israeli air strikes and tell me how the numbers compare. Not to mention the fact that almost all suicide bombings are a response to political and/or military oppression, and hence no more or less legitimate than an attack by a recognised army (in fact more legitimate than many of those, considering the motive is defence/freedom rather than domination and theft).

I realise that Americans are handicapped through their media and a natural tendency to overlook the rest of the world, but in the age of the Internet it's really not so hard to inform oneself a little more.
Was it Christianity/Judaism/Mainstream western religions and their variants that caused America and the west to do these things or just greed/stupidity/neo-imperialism? I guess in the case of the establishment of Israel and the ongoing conflict and strife since then you could attribute violence to Judaism. The relevant point is that Muslims are given special privileges because minor insults result in credible threats of violence, and major ones result in Theo van Gogh. In the midst of cultural and religious relativism, nobody seems to want to accept that Islam, by it's nature, is a more violent and destructive religion than any others.

Buddah did a line of coke in the episode, and Jesus chastised him because it was "in front of the kids". Joseph smith probably did some offensive crap too but I don't really remember. Shouldn't that have been censored too then? Why weren't there any credible death threats from those groups? We have to acknowledge that the Muslim religion is simply more disposed to violence than other world religions.

I won't argue that America is perfect and is capable of no fault, but I will say that Islam is, in practice, a violent religion.

Obviously we shouldn't try to convert or modernize the middle east, but we need to stop giving so much god damn reverence to this delusional mental disease. I'm sick of the "everything is the same, we cannot judge" attitude circulating through the west. Islam should be judged just as modern imperialism is, as a horrible affliction poisoning the world, not a sacred belief set to be revered and respected. To elevate it to the status to where it can abridge rights of free speech because it is simply too sacred to mock is just preposterous.

And what about the violence and oppression they perform on eachother? Though I don't agree with them, apologists for Islamic violence against the west have some valid points and well-reasoned ideas, but what about the clitorectomies, stonings, stone age justice, lack of democracy, disdain for modernity and science, and severe myopia? How can you attribute that to the actions of the west? Those things are the fault of Islam. Other religions don't seem to limit human welfare as severely.

Last edited by ConsumeAndBreed; 04-28-2010 at 01:37 AM..
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Old 04-28-2010, 02:29 AM   #120
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Islam, by it's nature, is a more violent and destructive religion than any others.
That's a mistake; it's not the religion. I recently learned a bit more about Islamic history by translating a book dealing with some medieval Islamic art/culture subjects. There was greater freedom of theological opinion, more democracy, and a very strong interest in modernity and science. Arab societies were, in a number of respects, more advanced than many European ones.

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what about the clitorectomies, stonings, stone age justice, lack of democracy, disdain for modernity and science, and severe myopia? How can you attribute that to the actions of the west?
Clitorectomies are more widespread in certain very traditional African societies than Middle Eastern ones, and have little to do with Islam per se. Go here: http://www.jannah.org/genderequity/equityappendix.html

But anyway, I don't attribute the origins of those things to the West. What I attribute to the West is the medieval state of many Middle Eastern societies. I realise that if one doesn't know the history that sounds like excuse-making and blame-shifting, but consider this: take a Western society, and imagine that time after time, powerful outside forces had come, caused massive destruction, and supported the most oppressive, backward factions and leaders as a way of preventing growth and progress. I'm not exaggerating, that's been happening for ages in Asia and Africa. Don't take my word for it - it's easy enough to get some background online. You find the way Muslim extremists oppress women and massacre freedom disgusting, right? So, imagine a guy like this, a militant fundamentlist warlord, and now imagine the USA pumping literally millions of dollars, as well as large amounts of drugs for further sale, into this guy and his forces. Do you find that disgusting too? Because that's what was going on for years in Afghanistan from the late 70s on (look up http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulbuddin_Hekmatyar, he's one of the worst of the worst and was on America's payroll for quite a while). The contribution the USA made to Afghan society and democracy during Jimmy Carter's administration alone sent it halfway to the stone age, with US-funded (so presumably ultimately tax-funded) warlords destroying half the country and most of the progress it had made in terms of modernisation and urbanisation. People say "Muslim societies are so backward, they just haven't progressed towards democracy". The thing is, they've been prevented from doing so again and again. Iran (which isn't actually comparable to the more backward ME states) wouldn't be a theocracy if the joint US-British secret services hadn't removed its first democratically-elected president: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953_Ir..._d%27%C3%A9tat Whom did they replace him with? The Shah, a nice old-style despot who did the US's bidding while oppressing his own country.

So tell me, what does any of this have to do with Islam?

Quote:
Those things are the fault of Islam. Other religions don't seem to limit human welfare as severely.
Maybe you should listen to an Orthodox (male) Jew's morning prayer routine, where he thanks God for not making him a woman...

I'm not defending militant extremists who wish death upon people who "insult" Islam, by the way, nor do I think they deserve particular courtesy simply because it's their religion. My point is just that the West has played a large part in breeding and maintaining this phenomenon. It's fine as long as the crazy Arabs are killing each other somewhere else, but when they take their anger over here people start complaining. So they should learn a bit more about the background to what they're complaining about.

Last edited by quartertone; 04-28-2010 at 02:33 AM..
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