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Old 11-09-2005, 09:10 PM   #31
InvoluntarySlaughter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xididthisforyoux
And we could have discussions on homosexuality and abortion for days all I'm saying is that I beleive homosexuality is a sin, but so is cursing or stealing but people dont get spit on or made fun of because of that stuff so why do it to homosexuals. And I dont agree with people killing doctors who perform abortions but I dont beleive abbortion is right because it is killing a human for no reason. I agree there are "factions" of christianity where people still have prejudice and still have wacked out ideals but what I'm saying is if you do look at the bible and at the foundations of christianity it isnt bad at all, it is a good guide for you to use to live your life, and I know not everyone will follow that guide just like not everyone will follow the same path but still in its foundational form thats what it is and thats what I try to use it as. I think you can be able to have good morals and values and not be a complete jerk about it. Anyway this could go on for days but I hope you understand what I mean in my previous posts.

Jordan
Word. Abortion is idiotic in my opinion. If people are responsible enough to have unprotected sex, then they should be responsible enough to take care of a baby. Now, I don't go protest and all of that because I realize that people can think for themselves, and that they will make their own decision without my input anyway. And for the other topic of religion. I am religious (Christian), but choose not to go to church because a lot of the people in this community in general who go to church are judgemental, closed minded, and aren't even worthy of being in a church period. I don't like the idea of going to listen to a preacher/pastor/priest/whatever preach about God, when he, himself isn't a true follower of God. My former pastor was the coolest guy while he was here, he ironically moved because of the hypocrites in our area were spreading rumors that he had cancer, and was leaving the church. Anyways, I had my hair about a foot long, and everyone in the church was giving me dirty looks, but he was the only one that said that it was cool. That's the kind of guy he was though. He could have been a pro baseball player in the 80's but turned it down to go to Bible College in Colorado Springs, which is where my family went at the same time. Back to my original main point is that, just because I am a Christian, doesn't automatically make me a closed-minded, judgemental, finger pointing, jackass. I myself like for people to think for themselves, but also to have the right point of view. People who bash Christians as a whole, without knowing them, are also being judgemental. It's not just religious people who are bad people. There are bad people everywhere, and that is what I am trying to say.

Peace, Justin.
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Old 11-10-2005, 02:54 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InvoluntarySlaughter
Word. Abortion is idiotic in my opinion. If people are responsible enough to have unprotected sex, then they should be responsible enough to take care of a baby. Now, I don't go protest and all of that because I realize that people can think for themselves, and that they will make their own decision without my input anyway. And for the other topic of religion. I am religious (Christian), but choose not to go to church because a lot of the people in this community in general who go to church are judgemental, closed minded, and aren't even worthy of being in a church period. I don't like the idea of going to listen to a preacher/pastor/priest/whatever preach about God, when he, himself isn't a true follower of God. My former pastor was the coolest guy while he was here, he ironically moved because of the hypocrites in our area were spreading rumors that he had cancer, and was leaving the church. Anyways, I had my hair about a foot long, and everyone in the church was giving me dirty looks, but he was the only one that said that it was cool. That's the kind of guy he was though. He could have been a pro baseball player in the 80's but turned it down to go to Bible College in Colorado Springs, which is where my family went at the same time. Back to my original main point is that, just because I am a Christian, doesn't automatically make me a closed-minded, judgemental, finger pointing, jackass. I myself like for people to think for themselves, but also to have the right point of view. People who bash Christians as a whole, without knowing them, are also being judgemental. It's not just religious people who are bad people. There are bad people everywhere, and that is what I am trying to say.

Peace, Justin.
What if you did have protected sex? Contraceptives are not 100% effective, so you may have taken every precaution and still became pregnant. Even more importantly, but about the case of rape? Do you really think a woman should have to bear the child that was conceived in hate and violence? The church doesn't make exceptions for these cases, and that's I'm so against the pro-life stance.

People have to realize that "Pro-choice" does NOT mean "pro-baby killing". I am pro choice, but if my girlfriend ever got pregnant the last thing I would want to do is have an abortion. At the same time, we are both in college and neither of us would be about to drop out. For this reason we are extremely careful, but that doesn't mean nothing could ever happen. And it would honestly be the hardest thing to do if I knew we had to kill something that was part of us both. So if it did have to happen, I would hate for people to look down on me for something that was already one of the most painful decisions of my life.

I don't know if some people who get abortions take the whole thing very lightly, that may be the case. But it's unfair to the people who see it as a last resort necessity that they should be harassed and look at as morally bad people.

"Creating a life only to destroy
Saved from a life of the unemployed
Where crime is the only way to survive
Which is the best to be dead or alive?
Maybe a chance but maybe not
Born to be thrown in the trash to rot
To exist in this world may be a mistake
The one who is with child, it's their choice to make"

"Altering the Future" off the spiritual healing album.
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Old 11-10-2005, 03:26 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by Tomes of Deceit
For this reason we are extremely careful, but that doesn't mean nothing could ever happen.
thats what :analsex: is for
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Old 11-10-2005, 05:48 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomes of Deceit
What if you did have protected sex? Contraceptives are not 100% effective, so you may have taken every precaution and still became pregnant. Even more importantly, but about the case of rape? Do you really think a woman should have to bear the child that was conceived in hate and violence? The church doesn't make exceptions for these cases, and that's I'm so against the pro-life stance.

People have to realize that "Pro-choice" does NOT mean "pro-baby killing". I am pro choice, but if my girlfriend ever got pregnant the last thing I would want to do is have an abortion. At the same time, we are both in college and neither of us would be about to drop out. For this reason we are extremely careful, but that doesn't mean nothing could ever happen. And it would honestly be the hardest thing to do if I knew we had to kill something that was part of us both. So if it did have to happen, I would hate for people to look down on me for something that was already one of the most painful decisions of my life.

I don't know if some people who get abortions take the whole thing very lightly, that may be the case. But it's unfair to the people who see it as a last resort necessity that they should be harassed and look at as morally bad people.

"Creating a life only to destroy
Saved from a life of the unemployed
Where crime is the only way to survive
Which is the best to be dead or alive?
Maybe a chance but maybe not
Born to be thrown in the trash to rot
To exist in this world may be a mistake
The one who is with child, it's their choice to make"

"Altering the Future" off the spiritual healing album.
Ok, I dont think he meant unprotected sex bc anyone knows that its not 100% safe. I do agree with the rape thing that would be the only acception. And in my opinion "being careful" would be not having sex at all. If you are responsible enough to have sex then you should be prepared to have a child. And when you say the church I'm assuming you mean the Catholic church, who's beleifs are completely different of those of mine. I am pro-life because for the 90% of cases out there that arent rape cases those should not be allowed to have an abortion.

Jordan
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Old 11-10-2005, 05:49 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by analredwing
thats what :analsex: is for
And thats sick, but I guess if your selfish then go ahead.
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Old 11-10-2005, 08:21 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by xididthisforyoux
Ok, I dont think he meant unprotected sex bc anyone knows that its not 100% safe. I do agree with the rape thing that would be the only acception. And in my opinion "being careful" would be not having sex at all. If you are responsible enough to have sex then you should be prepared to have a child. And when you say the church I'm assuming you mean the Catholic church, who's beleifs are completely different of those of mine. I am pro-life because for the 90% of cases out there that arent rape cases those should not be allowed to have an abortion.

Jordan
Yeah, I was referring to those who knowingly have unprotected sex. And I can see if it was rape, because that is a totally different thing.

So kids "Don't be a fool, double-wrap your tool!"
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Old 11-17-2005, 10:19 AM   #37
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Man, I was too late here... all you anti-abortionists, go to hell! If YOU were to give birth to an unwanted child, what the fucking hell do you think your opinion would be on abortion? If you're against killing babies, THEN DONT. Let people make up their own fucking minds. If you're afraid of going to hell over having an abortion, then don't have one. Let the people who make the choice go to hell! Why would you care?

Jesus, you guys amaze. The whole bloody concept in Christianity (I'm baptized, my mother's a priest and my dad was professor in theology) about God giving two shits about abortion astoundingly stupid. God is the creator of everything! Don't insult his fucking intelligence and authority by saying what's good or not good. I think God, who of course knows everything, doesn't want to take his wrath out on a 16-year old kid who got raped and now bears a child, since obviously the consequences for both er AND the child are harsh. Leave the judging to God, alright?
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Old 11-17-2005, 12:16 PM   #38
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Ok since you seem to know so much, maybe you should read and see that the only exception most people put down was rape situations. No one is saying that is wrong for them to have an abortion. If you read the bible it says god knew us when we were just in our mothers womb, therefore we were people and had lives. Its not about letting people make their own decisions its about morals and ethics not "lets let people make their own decisions" If we did that people would be killing people left and right and causing drunk driving accidents and more stuff like that. think before you speak

Jordan
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Old 11-17-2005, 02:26 PM   #39
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Think before you breathe!

The rape-situations were noted, of course, but there still seems to be a general consensus that abortion is bad. Can you argue that we have a life if we are an egg and a sperm cell? Of course, that's a never ending discussion, so nevermind. However, STOP (!!!) saying Christianity has patent on morals and ethics! Are you daft? The entire belief is built around ancient Greek philosophy for Gods sake. Ever heard of Socrates or Plato?
You know, the bible also incites to the stoning of unfaithful women. Is that a much carried out practice anywhere near you?

Let's do some thinking. God is not human, correct? He is nothing but godliness and has nothing what so ever to do with the tragically lacking humanity (we're all born with sin). Can God, who is NOT human, be angry and jealous about your wife screwing around? Is that not about the most human of emotions? If you answer yes, you've revoked the principle of God. Therefore you must say no. If you, however, decide to take up this judging role, not only have you given God human attributes (which is probably blasphemous), but you've made yourself God in his stead AND taken away from Him the principle of His being. If you calculate the score, don't you think it's better just to leave the judging to God, and the human business to the humans? You're better off that way. You get heavenly salvation for being a good Christian and God gets to remain God.

The entire essense, according to Christianity, of being human is to have CHOICE. Free will, buddy. You cannot strip people of this free will. If it's their will to get an abortion or eat forbidden fruit, then you can't and musn't stop them.

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Old 11-17-2005, 03:40 PM   #40
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:analsex: ???
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Old 11-17-2005, 06:08 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by Antæos
Think before you breathe!

The rape-situations were noted, of course, but there still seems to be a general consensus that abortion is bad. Can you argue that we have a life if we are an egg and a sperm cell? Of course, that's a never ending discussion, so nevermind. However, STOP (!!!) saying Christianity has patent on morals and ethics! Are you daft? The entire belief is built around ancient Greek philosophy for Gods sake. Ever heard of Socrates or Plato?
You know, the bible also incites to the stoning of unfaithful women. Is that a much carried out practice anywhere near you?

Let's do some thinking. God is not human, correct? He is nothing but godliness and has nothing what so ever to do with the tragically lacking humanity (we're all born with sin). Can God, who is NOT human, be angry and jealous about your wife screwing around? Is that not about the most human of emotions? If you answer yes, you've revoked the principle of God. Therefore you must say no. If you, however, decide to take up this judging role, not only have you given God human attributes (which is probably blasphemous), but you've made yourself God in his stead AND taken away from Him the principle of His being. If you calculate the score, don't you think it's better just to leave the judging to God, and the human business to the humans? You're better off that way. You get heavenly salvation for being a good Christian and God gets to remain God.

The entire essense, according to Christianity, of being human is to have CHOICE. Free will, buddy. You cannot strip people of this free will. If it's their will to get an abortion or eat forbidden fruit, then you can't and musn't stop them.

You can't reason with religion you fool!

But seriously, I agree wholeheartedly. Ok, I was raised a Catholic, and one of the main messages of Christianity is "turn the other cheek," you don't judge people, you just live your life as close to Jesus's as you can, and you have faith that everyone will get proper judgement after death. Jesus sympathized with the tax collector or the samaritan who everyone hated. When everyone was stoning the woman who commited adultery, Jesus said "let he who is without sin cast the first begrudging stone". There you go. Do you love Jesus? If you do, you need to stop judging people or making their decisions for them, because those are words right out of his mouth. Every human being sins all the time, even if the extent of how bad they are is different. Therefore if you believe in the afterlife and god you have no business judging what others do.

There is one BIG difference between abortion and murdering someone. First of all, I don't believe babies are truly conscious at that point. But also, if you kill someone you are not only hurting them but everyone who loves them. Their friends, family, and loved ones are the biggest victims. A fetus doesn't have anyone like that yet. The only person who would miss a fetus are its parents, and they are the ones making the decision. Besides, if there is a heaven wouldnt the baby, who has not sinned, be better of there than in this world of sin and evil??

Like I've said, I would never do it. But it's definitley NOT a black and white issue like murder of a normal person is. Murder is illegal because of society, it is a threat in society if you can be randomly attacked. Abortion isn't a threat to society, it's a personal issue between the individual and whatever god or morals they believe in.

If you are so sure about your faith, those people will burn in hell for eternity anyway. Isn't that enough for you? Or do you really not believe what you say you believe?
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Old 11-17-2005, 08:55 PM   #42
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Well put.



Quote:
Originally Posted by xididthisforyoux
And thats sick, but I guess if your selfish then go ahead.
I don't get it. Perhaps you have to actually try anal sex before you speak out about it, no? My girlfriend is a big fan, so selfish is probably the last word I'd use. :lo:
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Old 11-17-2005, 10:55 PM   #43
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Im officially done with this post. Nothing anyone has said has affected my thinking in any way. There is too much to be explained about these issues for someone to fully understand someone else's beleifs. We have too many people who think they know the bible all of different faiths from "christianity". The way catholics think you get to heaven is different from protestant views and they are practically incomparable. But whatever I still keep my opinions. No hard feelings I hope.
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Old 11-18-2005, 01:02 AM   #44
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All you guys have made great points. The only thing I was trying to get across is, that I don't think abortion is right. But that is just me. I don't judge anyone for having an abortion. It doesn't affect my life at all, so it really wouldn't do any good to complain and whine for no reason. Like I said earlier, I try not to judge anyone. But it happens once in a great while, but I realize what I did and try not to do it anymore. No matter what one says, they have done it too. We're human. Hell, I was called a satanist for having long hair that was past my arm pits, listening to death metal (which is sort of understandable), and because I'm basically not your normal go-to-church-every-sunday type of Christian. It didn't bother me all that much, because I hardly ever listen to what people say negative anyway. But I can definitely see where you guys are coming from.

And, I have many friends who are athiests, but that doesn't make me respect them any less as a person, try to preach to them, or anything else. I respect everyone's views. I listen to them, and if I don't agree, I don't call them a dumbass, or snicker at them. I just keep it to myself. Sorry for rambling on, but I felt like I needed to say this.
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Old 11-18-2005, 03:11 AM   #45
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It's all good dude. But when douchebags like that hardcore kid (no hard feelings man seriously, I just don't feel like spelling out your name) feel it's in order to exact judgement on chicks who get abortions, my wrath has been invoked!
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Old 11-18-2005, 05:22 PM   #46
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Wait guys, why are we talking about abortion?? Thats a topic with no end and its based on morality which is subjective. No point in even talking about it.

Colin
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Old 11-20-2005, 12:51 AM   #47
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yea, thats why i got pissed because its all opinion but w/e its cool now.
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